Quick thought on the NHS bill
I think the NHS bill is a bad bill, but it’s not as bad as its detractors say, now. It’s entirely possible that Lib Dem conference will vote to kill the bill tonight, but even if they don’t, I don’t think it will do the things its detractors say, now that it’s been amended significantly in response to previous Lib Dem objections. I think it’s a waste of time and effort and yet more bureaucratic meddling and change for change’s sake, but it won’t hurt anything.
That said, the people arguing against it do have one thing absolutely right – the NHS is one of the most important things in this country, and it is vital to defend it. I don’t care especially how it’s structured or how much is contracted out to different organisations – whatever works, works. What I care about is that we have free healthcare, provided to anyone whatever their means.
So I, at least, will make the following absolute commitment:
If, at any time between now and the next election, I or anyone I know in England makes a GP or hospital visit and gets charged (for anything other than services which are already charged for such as elective vaccinations when travelling abroad) I will quit the Lib Dems and campaign for any party which would in my view restore free-at-the-point-of-delivery healthcare. A lot of us have talked about what red lines we have in coalition government, and this one is one of mine.
That said, I’ve made a commitment, is there any supporter of a non-government party who will make either of these:
If the Lib Dems successfully kill the bill altogether, they will never again, for the lifetime of this parliament, say that the Lib Dems have been ineffectual or have made no difference in government.
If the Lib Dems decide *not* to kill the bill, and if by the next election none of the conditions I mention above apply (so no-one’s getting charged to go to hospital or visit their GP, and from the point of view of the typical patient nothing’s much different), they will admit, publicly, that their party’s leadership have been outright lying and can’t be trusted to tell the public the truth about the NHS, and will campaign instead for the Lib Dems as the party which actually did something useful and fixed the bill so it wouldn’t harm patients.
I suspect not. I am absolutely certain that one of the two options above will happen, and within three years everyone will have pretty much forgotten there was a bill at all. I am equally certain that this won’t stop supporters of other parties (not just Labour – the Greens and SNP are as bad) making up horror stories about the next piece of legislation that comes up, so “the ConDems” will be privatising schools, bringing back hanging, declaring nuclear war on Sweden, or whatever.
I hope to be proved wrong.
A few years ago I needed a minor op, simple enough to be a case of “pop in, local anasthetic, snip snip sew sew bandage up and off you go best get a taxi home and rest up for a week, see you in a fortnight to take the bandages off”.
I went to my GP, got examined, got an appointment booked in for a nearby NHS place few weeks later and all well and good.
But when I turned up for treatment I was confronted with a bill. Fortunately I had my cashcard on me and it was – I forget, but the sort of under-£100 fee that you go “urrgh, OK I need this doing” rather than the £500 that would make your eyes water. So I paid and got treated and went home and in due course was more or less OK. Certainly improved.
At no point did my GP mention there would be money involved, though. It was just sprung on me when I got there.
So… if you *do* find you run up against some small charge or other just the once, perhaps your pledge should allow you to waiver it. After all, it’s what the NHS was doing before all this.
(as you can probably tell, I’m still a bit cross while not being cross enough or it being a recent enough thing for me to be shouting about it all over the intermawebs!)
That’s disturbing. But I’d certainly check my facts and ensure it was a *new* charge before doing anything stupid.
I am, of course, only making the pledge in the first place because of how sure I am that the Lib Dems are protecting the NHS, not making it worse, so I don’t see the situation arising.
(I do think, though, that this is going to make it very difficult on the doorsteps over the next few weeks. Can’t we move Spring Conference to the week after Council elections in future? ;) )
Wasn’t there some policy that was supposed to learn us not to make pledges? Things move in and out of charging. There’s a good or at least arguable case for not allowing IVF, minor cosmetic surgery, acupuncture etc. on the NHS for example. My understanding is that a lot of these decisions will be made at a more local level under the new bill but I bow to someone who has actually read it !!
Well, an NHS walk-in centre has reportedly started charging to treat whiplash injuries: http://liberalconspiracy.org/2012/07/13/nhs-walk-in-centre-to-charge-25-for-treatment/
So, if that report turns out to be accurate, you have to quit the Lib Dems and start campaigning for somebody else.
*IF* it turns out to be true, and *IF* the charge is for something that was not previously charged for but is now allowed under new regulations, then yes.
If it’s something that was already charged for under the old regulations (like the minor op Jen talks about above) or a company breaking the new regulations, or if (as I suspect), it’s “Liberal” Conspiracy outright lying, as they do so often, then no.
Personally, having in the past worked on LibCon and knowing exactly how much effort Sunny makes to keep the site accurate (slightly less than none at all) I’d put the chance of that being an accurate report at less than 1%. There’s a reason I said in the post that it should happen to “I or anyone I know” — because I want to verify for myself, not just take the word of liars like LibCon.
So would you accept a report of an incident like this if it’s ‘verified’ by other sources, primary documents, scanned bills etc? Or are you a radical sceptic who only believes in your own direct experience and that of people you know? (For future reference, what are your criteria for someone counting as “people you know”?)
Your pledge seems like an impressive commitment, but saying you’ll ignore incidences of charging if they don’t happen to people you know will let you ignore most of them – I mean, if it happens on the other side of the country, it doesn’t count, right? And limiting it to the lifetime of this parliament was a clever move, since I guess Lansley’s short-term strategy is to degrade the NHS and then declare that further reforms are needed to save it. I mean, if the NHS is destroyed in the next parliament or the one after, there’s no blood on your hands, right?
I know people all over the country, but of *course* I will accept reasonable sources. Liberal Conspiracy isn’t one.
Limiting it to the lifetime of this parliament is not ‘a clever move’, it’s taking responsibility *for the actions of the Liberal Democrats*. If people vote in a Tory or Labour government, and that Tory or Labour government go on to destroy the NHS, then that’s a tragedy but it’s not my fault, or the fault of any Lib Dems. It does still apply to any future Lib Dem government or coalition government including the Lib Dems.
This talk about blood on my hands because someone who isn’t me and who I don’t support might, in the future, do the absolute opposite of what I support is very, *very* close to trolling.
Lib Dem collaboration with the Tories in this parliament has allowed a disruptive, expensive reform and an increase in privatisation, and you’re an apologist for that. If that sets in motion the train of events that eventually lets future Tories kill the NHS for good, you’re responsible.
I wasn’t fan of Labour privatisation, but it did seem to improve outcomes.
Except that the NHS Act reduces and reverses privatisation, that I’m not ‘an apologist’ for it (I opposed it and continue to do so), and that since any act by any government can be seen as ‘setting in motion the train of events’ that causes every future act by every future government you are asking me to say I’ll quit the Lib Dems if at any point any government of any party does anything wrong, which is a fucking ludicrous position.
Since you have no interest at all either in facts, or in reasoned debate, then I have no interest in talking to you and you’re blocked.
And two minutes’ checking shows that:
That walk-in centre has been run by the private company in question since *2009*
The law they’re using to justify the charge is The Road Traffic (NHS Charges) Act 1999.
Private company brought in under Labour privatisation, using charges brought in under a Labour government. Nothing to do with the new Act, nothing to do with the Lib Dems, except that it looks like both Lib Dems *and* Labour in Sheffield are trying to get this changed.
I didn’t agree with the Labour privatisation, but what has triggered the private company to be emboldened into charging NOW and not in 2009?
Who says they didn’t charge in 2009? I see nothing in that article or in its source or anywhere else that says this is a new thing. And either way, I can’t be held responsible for the actions of companies brought in under Labour using Labour legislation.