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	<title>Comments on: Pop-Drama 1 : The Jungle VIP</title>
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	<link>http://andrewhickey.info/2009/11/15/pop-drama-1-the-jungle-vip/</link>
	<description>Thoughts on music, science, politics and comics. Mostly comics.</description>
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		<title>By: pillock</title>
		<link>http://andrewhickey.info/2009/11/15/pop-drama-1-the-jungle-vip/comment-page-1/#comment-4499</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pillock]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 02:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewhickey.info/?p=983#comment-4499</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oooh, RAB&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://estoreal.blogspot.com/2009/11/jungle-lord.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;got one&lt;/a&gt; too, and it&#039;s pretty damn neat!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oooh, RAB&#8217;s <a href="http://estoreal.blogspot.com/2009/11/jungle-lord.html" rel="nofollow">got one</a> too, and it&#8217;s pretty damn neat!</p>
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		<title>By: Lue Lyron</title>
		<link>http://andrewhickey.info/2009/11/15/pop-drama-1-the-jungle-vip/comment-page-1/#comment-4469</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lue Lyron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 18:49:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewhickey.info/?p=983#comment-4469</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I like the historical basis with the &quot;Clermont Set.&quot;  History might continue to serve the storytelling engine.
Great idea, using a fully-fleshed out Jane to tie together realistic character growth.
I studied the volcano rings in East Africa for the purposes of my novel.  I would dearly love to see them tied to your murderous lord&#039;s disappearance.  Did you have a geographical area staked out for this incarnation?  I studied Burkina Faso for another thread in the novel, which revealed a good bit about how a specific area will have a different anthropological makeup and history. Obviously I mention it because the choice of nations would yield particular plot ideas concerning the wildlife preserves, endangered species, the topography, and of course the natives.
The Cowboys and the Redskins, meanwhile, are playing football here in the states this Sunday.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the historical basis with the &#8220;Clermont Set.&#8221;  History might continue to serve the storytelling engine.<br />
Great idea, using a fully-fleshed out Jane to tie together realistic character growth.<br />
I studied the volcano rings in East Africa for the purposes of my novel.  I would dearly love to see them tied to your murderous lord&#8217;s disappearance.  Did you have a geographical area staked out for this incarnation?  I studied Burkina Faso for another thread in the novel, which revealed a good bit about how a specific area will have a different anthropological makeup and history. Obviously I mention it because the choice of nations would yield particular plot ideas concerning the wildlife preserves, endangered species, the topography, and of course the natives.<br />
The Cowboys and the Redskins, meanwhile, are playing football here in the states this Sunday.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew&#8217;s Tarzan &#171; A Trout In The Milk</title>
		<link>http://andrewhickey.info/2009/11/15/pop-drama-1-the-jungle-vip/comment-page-1/#comment-4436</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew&#8217;s Tarzan &#171; A Trout In The Milk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewhickey.info/?p=983#comment-4436</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] And then this. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] And then this. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Holly</title>
		<link>http://andrewhickey.info/2009/11/15/pop-drama-1-the-jungle-vip/comment-page-1/#comment-4405</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Holly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:57:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewhickey.info/?p=983#comment-4405</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Told ya.

And I&#039;m abstaining; I can&#039;t play this game.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Told ya.</p>
<p>And I&#8217;m abstaining; I can&#8217;t play this game.</p>
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		<title>By: pillock</title>
		<link>http://andrewhickey.info/2009/11/15/pop-drama-1-the-jungle-vip/comment-page-1/#comment-4404</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pillock]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 07:23:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewhickey.info/?p=983#comment-4404</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ooooh, I think it&#039;s actually going well, too!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooooh, I think it&#8217;s actually going well, too!</p>
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		<title>By: pillock</title>
		<link>http://andrewhickey.info/2009/11/15/pop-drama-1-the-jungle-vip/comment-page-1/#comment-4402</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pillock]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewhickey.info/?p=983#comment-4402</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Et tu, Holly?

...Okay, maybe I have an idea.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Et tu, Holly?</p>
<p>&#8230;Okay, maybe I have an idea.</p>
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		<title>By: pillock</title>
		<link>http://andrewhickey.info/2009/11/15/pop-drama-1-the-jungle-vip/comment-page-1/#comment-4395</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pillock]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 03:54:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewhickey.info/?p=983#comment-4395</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In comics you can have evocative tableaux that are capable of being lingered over, that&#039;s basically where I see the extra texture coming in...whereas TV&#039;s advantage is in the expressive faces, motions, and voices of actors.

But I actually think there&#039;s a point where these two advantages merge, at least a little.  For example I always thought the Tom Baker Who excelled at &quot;doing comics&quot; on the screen -- sort of in the same way that one episode of Star Trek (&quot;Court Martial&quot;, actually...why am I pretending I don&#039;t know what it&#039;s called, when I can practically recite the damn thing line-by-line?) looks just like it was drawn by Ditko...there was a little corner of my little teenage brain that could always see T. Baker&#039;s Doctor as adventuring in locales pencilled and inked by John Byrne and Terry Austin...

Uh...you all &lt;i&gt;saw&lt;/i&gt; the Ditko in that Star Trek episode, right?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In comics you can have evocative tableaux that are capable of being lingered over, that&#8217;s basically where I see the extra texture coming in&#8230;whereas TV&#8217;s advantage is in the expressive faces, motions, and voices of actors.</p>
<p>But I actually think there&#8217;s a point where these two advantages merge, at least a little.  For example I always thought the Tom Baker Who excelled at &#8220;doing comics&#8221; on the screen &#8212; sort of in the same way that one episode of Star Trek (&#8220;Court Martial&#8221;, actually&#8230;why am I pretending I don&#8217;t know what it&#8217;s called, when I can practically recite the damn thing line-by-line?) looks just like it was drawn by Ditko&#8230;there was a little corner of my little teenage brain that could always see T. Baker&#8217;s Doctor as adventuring in locales pencilled and inked by John Byrne and Terry Austin&#8230;</p>
<p>Uh&#8230;you all <i>saw</i> the Ditko in that Star Trek episode, right?</p>
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		<title>By: Prankster</title>
		<link>http://andrewhickey.info/2009/11/15/pop-drama-1-the-jungle-vip/comment-page-1/#comment-4389</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Prankster]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 22:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewhickey.info/?p=983#comment-4389</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I absolutely think &quot;return to the wild&quot; is still something people enjoy--that&#039;s a big reason for the more lighthearted strain of post-apocalypse fiction, in my estimation. (Of course, in those stories, you have food laying around to be looted, mansions to yourself, etc., but still, &quot;getting away from it all&quot; has a powerful appeal.)

There&#039;s another element in Tarzan&#039;s success, I think: sex. The story of Tarzan and Jane is basically a sexual fantasy (for both genders!), again, tied in with the &quot;escape from civilization/return to the Garden of Eden&quot; aspect. Watch the first two Weissmuller Tarzan movies, in particular, and tell me they aren&#039;t primarily about sublimated sexuality.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I absolutely think &#8220;return to the wild&#8221; is still something people enjoy&#8211;that&#8217;s a big reason for the more lighthearted strain of post-apocalypse fiction, in my estimation. (Of course, in those stories, you have food laying around to be looted, mansions to yourself, etc., but still, &#8220;getting away from it all&#8221; has a powerful appeal.)</p>
<p>There&#8217;s another element in Tarzan&#8217;s success, I think: sex. The story of Tarzan and Jane is basically a sexual fantasy (for both genders!), again, tied in with the &#8220;escape from civilization/return to the Garden of Eden&#8221; aspect. Watch the first two Weissmuller Tarzan movies, in particular, and tell me they aren&#8217;t primarily about sublimated sexuality.</p>
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		<title>By: Harvey Jerkwater</title>
		<link>http://andrewhickey.info/2009/11/15/pop-drama-1-the-jungle-vip/comment-page-1/#comment-4388</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Harvey Jerkwater]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 22:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewhickey.info/?p=983#comment-4388</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I gotta admit, I&#039;m not feeling this story in my gut.  Sorry to be the turd in the punchbowl.  

What&#039;s the appeal of Tarzan?  Why would a modern reader or TV viewer care about him?  What&#039;s compelling about him?  Your version has story seeds a&#039;plenty and a recognizable character arc, but it doesn&#039;t grab me by the lip and yank.  It has ideas, and it has soap opera goodness, as you called for in your manifesto, but it lacks...something.  

What itch does the Lord of the Apes scratch in so many people?  What makes the Feral Man so compelling that I&#039;m gonna plop down in front of a TV set every week or cough up $4 per comic to follow his adventures, or even read a free story about him?

Tarzan&#039;s original appeal came from widespread insecurity about the &quot;effeminizing&quot; effects of civilization, right?  He&#039;s the reassurance that we Manly (White) Men of Europe and America could, if need be, not only survive in the harshest environment without any human help, but thrive and even conquer it.  We get the charge of being King of the Jungle, no longer haunted by the fear that civilized life has made us too soft.  I don&#039;t think that anxiety has left us.  That&#039;s not too difficult to recast without the racist mold, I think, though it&#039;d raise some logical problems.  (&quot;If a human could take over the jungle, why the one white guy around and not one of the millions of locals?&quot;)  Your story hits this obliquely, but I think it needs to be hit harder.

A bigger problem may be the loss of exoticism.  Africa isn&#039;t as unknown to us as it was to the folks of yesteryear, and our desire for spectacle is much, much greater than a herd of elephants can provide.  We see nasty jungles and amazing jungle creatures on cable television every day.  It&#039;s still stunning and amazing, but it&#039;s not as alien to Western eyes as it once was.  What spectacle could Tarzan provide that would take a modern viewer or reader&#039;s breath away?  

As written above, the story is the moral awakening of an alienated man.  That&#039;s tough to fit onto the genre trappings of pulpy action and make it work, because if Our Hero starts as an inhuman cipher, it&#039;s hard to make us care long enough to stick around and see the awakening, and if you rush the awakening to drive audience interest, it feels lame. 

Tarzan is a tough sell to a modern audience.  Do people really think much at all about how &quot;cities have made us soft&quot; anymore?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I gotta admit, I&#8217;m not feeling this story in my gut.  Sorry to be the turd in the punchbowl.  </p>
<p>What&#8217;s the appeal of Tarzan?  Why would a modern reader or TV viewer care about him?  What&#8217;s compelling about him?  Your version has story seeds a&#8217;plenty and a recognizable character arc, but it doesn&#8217;t grab me by the lip and yank.  It has ideas, and it has soap opera goodness, as you called for in your manifesto, but it lacks&#8230;something.  </p>
<p>What itch does the Lord of the Apes scratch in so many people?  What makes the Feral Man so compelling that I&#8217;m gonna plop down in front of a TV set every week or cough up $4 per comic to follow his adventures, or even read a free story about him?</p>
<p>Tarzan&#8217;s original appeal came from widespread insecurity about the &#8220;effeminizing&#8221; effects of civilization, right?  He&#8217;s the reassurance that we Manly (White) Men of Europe and America could, if need be, not only survive in the harshest environment without any human help, but thrive and even conquer it.  We get the charge of being King of the Jungle, no longer haunted by the fear that civilized life has made us too soft.  I don&#8217;t think that anxiety has left us.  That&#8217;s not too difficult to recast without the racist mold, I think, though it&#8217;d raise some logical problems.  (&#8220;If a human could take over the jungle, why the one white guy around and not one of the millions of locals?&#8221;)  Your story hits this obliquely, but I think it needs to be hit harder.</p>
<p>A bigger problem may be the loss of exoticism.  Africa isn&#8217;t as unknown to us as it was to the folks of yesteryear, and our desire for spectacle is much, much greater than a herd of elephants can provide.  We see nasty jungles and amazing jungle creatures on cable television every day.  It&#8217;s still stunning and amazing, but it&#8217;s not as alien to Western eyes as it once was.  What spectacle could Tarzan provide that would take a modern viewer or reader&#8217;s breath away?  </p>
<p>As written above, the story is the moral awakening of an alienated man.  That&#8217;s tough to fit onto the genre trappings of pulpy action and make it work, because if Our Hero starts as an inhuman cipher, it&#8217;s hard to make us care long enough to stick around and see the awakening, and if you rush the awakening to drive audience interest, it feels lame. </p>
<p>Tarzan is a tough sell to a modern audience.  Do people really think much at all about how &#8220;cities have made us soft&#8221; anymore?</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Ampersand</title>
		<link>http://andrewhickey.info/2009/11/15/pop-drama-1-the-jungle-vip/comment-page-1/#comment-4387</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt Ampersand]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:56:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewhickey.info/?p=983#comment-4387</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would totally read this series if you write it. 

This compliment, admittedly, is somewhat diminished by the fact I have never read any Tarzan book or movie (outside of the Disney one when I was like 10, but that hardly counts). But I have seen every episode of the 60&#039;s George of the Jungle animated series, which has to count for something.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would totally read this series if you write it. </p>
<p>This compliment, admittedly, is somewhat diminished by the fact I have never read any Tarzan book or movie (outside of the Disney one when I was like 10, but that hardly counts). But I have seen every episode of the 60&#8242;s George of the Jungle animated series, which has to count for something.</p>
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