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	<title>Comments on: Degrees Of Freedom – Mister Miracle, Darkseid, and Morrison Doing Kirby (or Why Kirby Matters) (Hyperpost 8)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://andrewhickey.info/2009/09/09/degrees-of-freedom-%e2%80%93-mister-miracle-darkseid-and-morrison-doing-kirby-or-why-kirby-matters-hyperpost-8/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://andrewhickey.info/2009/09/09/degrees-of-freedom-%e2%80%93-mister-miracle-darkseid-and-morrison-doing-kirby-or-why-kirby-matters-hyperpost-8/</link>
	<description>Thoughts on music, science, politics and comics. Mostly comics.</description>
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		<title>By: Darkseid!! (Authority Post 1) &#171; Sci-Ence! Justice Leak!</title>
		<link>http://andrewhickey.info/2009/09/09/degrees-of-freedom-%e2%80%93-mister-miracle-darkseid-and-morrison-doing-kirby-or-why-kirby-matters-hyperpost-8/comment-page-1/#comment-8776</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Darkseid!! (Authority Post 1) &#171; Sci-Ence! Justice Leak!]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jan 2011 22:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewhickey.info/?p=819#comment-8776</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] in the comments there, mentioned my earlier piece, Darkseid Is (and we could also add my post from last month on the Fourth World characters) but that doesn&#8217;t quite fit Pillock&#8217;s brief &#8211; he wanted us to talk specifically [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in the comments there, mentioned my earlier piece, Darkseid Is (and we could also add my post from last month on the Fourth World characters) but that doesn&#8217;t quite fit Pillock&#8217;s brief &#8211; he wanted us to talk specifically [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Andrew Hickey</title>
		<link>http://andrewhickey.info/2009/09/09/degrees-of-freedom-%e2%80%93-mister-miracle-darkseid-and-morrison-doing-kirby-or-why-kirby-matters-hyperpost-8/comment-page-1/#comment-3537</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew Hickey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewhickey.info/?p=819#comment-3537</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There was no plan as such - Kirby was freewheeling with a lot of it, and while he planned that it would *have* an end, he didn&#039;t plan what that would be.
Years later he &#039;finished&#039; the story with the graphic novel The Hunger Dogs (which was quickly ruled &#039;out of continuity&#039;) but very few people think that&#039;s a fitting end, although it&#039;s included in the Fourth World Omnibus volumes...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was no plan as such &#8211; Kirby was freewheeling with a lot of it, and while he planned that it would *have* an end, he didn&#8217;t plan what that would be.<br />
Years later he &#8216;finished&#8217; the story with the graphic novel The Hunger Dogs (which was quickly ruled &#8216;out of continuity&#8217;) but very few people think that&#8217;s a fitting end, although it&#8217;s included in the Fourth World Omnibus volumes&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Hickey</title>
		<link>http://andrewhickey.info/2009/09/09/degrees-of-freedom-%e2%80%93-mister-miracle-darkseid-and-morrison-doing-kirby-or-why-kirby-matters-hyperpost-8/comment-page-1/#comment-3536</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew Hickey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:10:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewhickey.info/?p=819#comment-3536</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Very, VERY good points...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very, VERY good points&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Andrew Ducker</title>
		<link>http://andrewhickey.info/2009/09/09/degrees-of-freedom-%e2%80%93-mister-miracle-darkseid-and-morrison-doing-kirby-or-why-kirby-matters-hyperpost-8/comment-page-1/#comment-3535</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew Ducker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewhickey.info/?p=819#comment-3535</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh - does anyone know how the Fourth World stuff was supposed to finish?  I know it was cancelled, but that&#039;s about all...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh &#8211; does anyone know how the Fourth World stuff was supposed to finish?  I know it was cancelled, but that&#8217;s about all&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Prankster</title>
		<link>http://andrewhickey.info/2009/09/09/degrees-of-freedom-%e2%80%93-mister-miracle-darkseid-and-morrison-doing-kirby-or-why-kirby-matters-hyperpost-8/comment-page-1/#comment-3534</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Prankster]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:12:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewhickey.info/?p=819#comment-3534</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Very good! A lot of people who have attempted to write for him don&#039;t seem to get why Darkseid is so compelling, but I&#039;d say you nailed it. I tend to think of Darkseid as the ultimate solipsist, as the &quot;mirror&quot; quote above makes pretty explicit. He wants to be alone in a universe that serves his will and his alone. And even more interestingly, when he comes as close as he&#039;ll ever get to achieving his goals--in The Hunger Dogs--he seems to find himself sorrowful, miserable, and haunted. Irrelevant in the world he built for himself.

The other aspect of Darkseid I find interesting--or maybe it&#039;s not Darkseid so much as the forces of Apokolips in general--is the theme of false individuality being used to subvert true freedom. The various Apokoliptians are assigned names, costumes, powers, and seemingly even personalities by Granny Goodness in her orphanage, and they cling to these identities no matter how ridiculous they are. Granny, unlike Darkseid, seems to have a sense of humour about this stuff, but she&#039;s still serving his will by transforming people into puppets of Darkseid--but instead of simply making them into faceless, brainwashed footsoldiers (that&#039;s Glorious Godfrey&#039;s job) she&#039;s doing something more interesting, and something that serves the needs of a comic book story better. She&#039;s taking away their dignity and making a mockery of the concept of &quot;individuality&quot; by seemingly giving them vibrant, distinctive identities. But those identities ultimately are simply tools for Darkseid to use. 

Rather than identifying &quot;individuality&quot; with simplistic non-conformity, Kirby went the other way, to show how distinctiveness can be a trap in and of itself. This makes even someone as ridiculous as Virman Vundabar rather poignant and tragic--he&#039;s an actor in a play whose author (or perhaps &quot;financier&quot;) has nothing but contempt for him. In fact, it gets rather chilling when you realize that even Scott Free had his identity assigned to him by Darkseid--&lt;i&gt;and he was meant to escape&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;. Even the great escape artist and avatar of freedom was serving Darkseid&#039;s purposes. You can cling to the hope that Scott&#039;s Mr. Miracle persona is at least his own, but still...

In that regard, I always found it interesting that Apokolips, for all its barbed wire and flaming hell-pits, isn&#039;t really a totalitarian regime; in fact, once you&#039;re out of the orphanage, it seems to operate on a principle of near-total anarchy, with constant fighting between the supposed troops. Darkseid doesn&#039;t care; he&#039;s still got them under his control.&lt;/i&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good! A lot of people who have attempted to write for him don&#8217;t seem to get why Darkseid is so compelling, but I&#8217;d say you nailed it. I tend to think of Darkseid as the ultimate solipsist, as the &#8220;mirror&#8221; quote above makes pretty explicit. He wants to be alone in a universe that serves his will and his alone. And even more interestingly, when he comes as close as he&#8217;ll ever get to achieving his goals&#8211;in The Hunger Dogs&#8211;he seems to find himself sorrowful, miserable, and haunted. Irrelevant in the world he built for himself.</p>
<p>The other aspect of Darkseid I find interesting&#8211;or maybe it&#8217;s not Darkseid so much as the forces of Apokolips in general&#8211;is the theme of false individuality being used to subvert true freedom. The various Apokoliptians are assigned names, costumes, powers, and seemingly even personalities by Granny Goodness in her orphanage, and they cling to these identities no matter how ridiculous they are. Granny, unlike Darkseid, seems to have a sense of humour about this stuff, but she&#8217;s still serving his will by transforming people into puppets of Darkseid&#8211;but instead of simply making them into faceless, brainwashed footsoldiers (that&#8217;s Glorious Godfrey&#8217;s job) she&#8217;s doing something more interesting, and something that serves the needs of a comic book story better. She&#8217;s taking away their dignity and making a mockery of the concept of &#8220;individuality&#8221; by seemingly giving them vibrant, distinctive identities. But those identities ultimately are simply tools for Darkseid to use. </p>
<p>Rather than identifying &#8220;individuality&#8221; with simplistic non-conformity, Kirby went the other way, to show how distinctiveness can be a trap in and of itself. This makes even someone as ridiculous as Virman Vundabar rather poignant and tragic&#8211;he&#8217;s an actor in a play whose author (or perhaps &#8220;financier&#8221;) has nothing but contempt for him. In fact, it gets rather chilling when you realize that even Scott Free had his identity assigned to him by Darkseid&#8211;<i>and he was meant to escape</i><i>. Even the great escape artist and avatar of freedom was serving Darkseid&#8217;s purposes. You can cling to the hope that Scott&#8217;s Mr. Miracle persona is at least his own, but still&#8230;</p>
<p>In that regard, I always found it interesting that Apokolips, for all its barbed wire and flaming hell-pits, isn&#8217;t really a totalitarian regime; in fact, once you&#8217;re out of the orphanage, it seems to operate on a principle of near-total anarchy, with constant fighting between the supposed troops. Darkseid doesn&#8217;t care; he&#8217;s still got them under his control.</i></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Andrew Hickey</title>
		<link>http://andrewhickey.info/2009/09/09/degrees-of-freedom-%e2%80%93-mister-miracle-darkseid-and-morrison-doing-kirby-or-why-kirby-matters-hyperpost-8/comment-page-1/#comment-3532</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew Hickey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewhickey.info/?p=819#comment-3532</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Exactly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Andrew Ducker</title>
		<link>http://andrewhickey.info/2009/09/09/degrees-of-freedom-%e2%80%93-mister-miracle-darkseid-and-morrison-doing-kirby-or-why-kirby-matters-hyperpost-8/comment-page-1/#comment-3527</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew Ducker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 07:12:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewhickey.info/?p=819#comment-3527</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;No matter how tight Darkseid’s fist grows, Mister Miracle can slip through it. Anti-life can never beat the Human Factor. &lt;/i&gt;
A point Morrison makes in The Invisibles (King Mob saying that having all the cameras in the world won&#039;t help, because the security guards will use the monitors to play Doom), RAW makes in Illuminatus (the symbol of the closed fist, used when Hagbard gives up control of the submarine) and Lucas makes in Star Wars (&quot;The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers&quot;).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>No matter how tight Darkseid’s fist grows, Mister Miracle can slip through it. Anti-life can never beat the Human Factor. </i><br />
A point Morrison makes in The Invisibles (King Mob saying that having all the cameras in the world won&#8217;t help, because the security guards will use the monitors to play Doom), RAW makes in Illuminatus (the symbol of the closed fist, used when Hagbard gives up control of the submarine) and Lucas makes in Star Wars (&#8220;The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers&#8221;).</p>
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